Dr. Michael Rovito founded the Male Wellness Collective (formerly the Men's Health Initiative) in 2010. He's often collaborated with us at the MIU Men's Health Foundation and was very intentional in choosing his organization's new name. He explains why.
Dr. Rovito had a testicular cancer scare at the age of 16, a time in a male's life when he may not be comfortable discussing such things. He talks us through that today. Now, as a certified health education specialist, armed with a PhD in Public Health, he's trying to shape the conversation.
In this wide-ranging discussion, Dr. Lutz and Dr. Rovito talk about the need to change our "health care" system to a more preventative "well care" system. How do we get there? Why do men not talk about their health, and why are we statistically less likely to go see a doctor? Why did the US Preventative Services Task Force give, frankly, bad advice about testicular self exams, or TSE's?
Today's episode, however, reaches far beyond the genitals. Doctors Lutz and Rovito have a very honest conversation about struggling with their weight, even discussing the psychological trauma of gynecomastia, more commonly referred to as "man boobs." Dr. Rovito has struggled with his mental health, body issues, and even suicidal thoughts. These are all topics we feel men need to be discussing more.
Finally, Dr. Rovito credits his wife, Kathy. She's been his partner in life and in the Male Wellness Collective. This serves as a reminder that men's health is a topic not just for guys, but also for the women who love them.
Dr. Michael Rovito is a testicular cancer researcher, and he teaches at the University of Central Florida.
Resources:
MIU Men's Health Foundation Website:https://www.miumenshealthfoundation.org/
Male Wellness Collective Website: https://malewellnesscollective.com/
Dr. Lutz: Welcome to the On Call For Men's Health podcast. I'm Dr. Michael Lutz. This is where we talk about things you don't want to talk about. But these are conversations that could save your life or the lives of the men you love. Thank you for joining us. And today we're going to talk with Dr. Michael Rovito.
Dr. Rovito is an associate professor of health sciences at the University of Central Florida, and the founder of the Male Wellness Collective, I've known Michael for many years, we've worked together, actually professionally through our foundation and through his as well. He's a testicular cancer researcher. And part of that is going to be the focus of today's discussion.
He's also has a PhD in public health, and he's also a certified health education specialist. Now I know what CHES finally stands for. Thank you. But what I love most about Michael is that he's a men's health advocate just like me, and that's where we share our passion and our commitment to our community.
And this is what we're going to talk about today. So, Michael, thanks for joining us.
Dr. Rovito: Oh, thanks for the invitation. It's fantastic to speak with you again and talk turkey. I love it. Thank you.
Dr. Lutz: So we will talk turkey. Were going to talk about a lot of turkeys, but only men's health turkeys today. And I'm just kind of curious, Michael, why do you refer to it as the male wellness collective?
Dr. Rovito: It's a good question. We chose male wellness collective because we wanted boys to feel included when we talk about stuff. And so we chose the word male. And instead of health, we're using the word wellness. We saw wellness as being more of a, well-rounded kind of like conversational or just idea behind like the human body.
It's like, yeah it's physical health and it's mental health and it's psychological, but then we're getting into spirituality, wellness. And we're like all these dimensions of wellness that are now being spoken of in the literature. I was like, wow, that could be a really great word to use. Yeah, it's just a bit more expansive terminology for how we operate.
But again, when I say this is that, there's no knock against any other use of the words, men's health, anywhere. Just we're artists choosing our words, male wellness and the "collective,". It's not just a one person or two person show. Literally. It's like when we work with someone like yourself or others across the country, it's like-minded individuals that are working together as a collective.
And that's how we're kind of viewing all of our programs and discussions and papers and whatever. It's just a collective of people there's writing or doing as a,, just interested group. And so that's why we chose the word collective. And so we, when we rebranded from men's health initiative to male wellness collective, it was more than just a name. It was a feel as palpable for how we conducted ourselves. I'm sorry for a really long jargon-y kind of explanation for that.
Dr. Lutz: I like it. Well, that's why you got your PhD.
Dr. Rovito: That's right. That's right.
Dr. Lutz: So, you know, it's interesting for 10 years, we've worked together on our "Fight Like a Man" international collaborate, which has a collective of individuals all across the world who are like us who care about men's health and advocate for men's health and like to share their stories.
The health of their communities. And one of the people who I've adored over the last number of years is Dr. Larry Goldenberg from the Canadian Men's Health Foundation who once spoke about a "spoke and hub" phenomenon for men's health. In other words, there should be a hub. There should be a central organization that actually kind of chairs, this whole advocacy movement for men's health and all of us serve as spokes on that same wheel.
The problem is finding the hub. I know we're not the hub. I don't know whether you feel you're the hub, but one day we will find that hub and it's nice that we can all work together and do something for the community. I noticed that on your collective, your wife, Kathy, is intimately involved. So how does she play a role in this and how is that part of your life?
In addition to being married to someone who you love dearly.
Dr. Rovito: She and I'm not just saying it because it's good radio or whatever, if it wasn't for her, I don't think it would exist. And this is truth be told. Like if it wasn't for her, I don't think I'd be here. I had issues with suicide tendencies and stuff when I was younger.
And just for the traumatic experiences that I've been through. And it was literally, it was like when I met Kathy, like, it was like a metamorphosis of mind, body, and spirit and stuff. She literally was like a saving angel, I guess, saving grace kind of like guardian angel thing for me. And, besides that little, the afterschool special, uh, she got me into the mindset of the name switch and she was a catalyst for me for that health education kind of spin. The wellness spin.
She's a 30,000 foot thinker, but very, very detail oriented, if that makes any sense. And so she is a CEO, she runs the show. I'm just a talking head. Like I have ideas and I like to execute papers and collaborations and stuff. Like I'm more action-oriented, she's more of like the brains behind it all. She's like the wizard of Oz.
And I'm like that, like the hologram, she's the person behind the curtain, if you want to put it that way. And so without her, it wouldn't exist. She pulls all the levers. And I'm just here to come and say, yes, ma'am, you know,
Dr. Lutz: Well, thank God she's been pulling the right levers for you. So that you're the person you are today.
Dr. Rovito: Yeah. And that's the honest God truth. I don't think I ever said it like that to her, but if it wasn't for her, this wouldn't exist. And that's why, not to do a little diatribe, but like little offshoot. That's why I love having her as a CEO because this showcases that men's health is not just for men. You know, it's for women and females too. There's a role for everybody here.
Dr. Lutz: You know, oftentimes we have to have that discussion with people. When we talk about men's health, that really men's health is about family health. It's about supporting each other. It's about women supporting the health of men and men being healthy so that they can then help take care of the women in their lives.
So everything is a give and take, and it's not just a one way street and it's all about being considerate. And maintaining your health and wellness so that you can actually be a good caregiver for each other. And a lot of people forget, or don't see that other side of the coin, so to speak, they think you talk about men's health.
So therefore you're only talking about the health of the man in your community and everybody else is without any respect or consideration.
Dr. Rovito: Yeah, exactly.
Dr. Lutz: You know, you talked about wellness. One of the things I think would be interesting just to hear your thoughts on is that, we live in a healthcare system that's really not healthcare. It's sick care. And everybody addresses their healthcare through getting sick care. You know, men typically more so than women only seek out healthcare when they have a malady, an illness, a feeling out of work or out of sync that's so bad that they can't exist. It's not something for prevention.
Do you think we'll ever change from a sick care system to a well care system? And how do you think that transition could occur?
Dr. Rovito: Man, if I had the answer to that question. We just did journal club at UCF where I teach. I have the testicular cancer research collaborative, and we just had journal club. And the article that we just critiqued was,from urologic oncology. It was talking about, urologic cancers and how, the pandemic had a potential impact upon the treatment deferrals and the topic come up.
It was about insurance. Delays and this and that, and about deductibles, I'm like, oh my God, how do we get to this point? Like, it's just so crazy that people... This survivor was on and he was a student. And he had bilateral at the same time. What's that? .005% of the cancer is like really, really rare. And, he said, yeah, I had to pay 20% out of pocket. I'm like, where'd you find that money from? He's like, I didn't. It's still a huge issue for me. And, it just, I don't know, that's a really great question. And it just, besides the whole, like men waiting to go get treated because of whatever barriers that exist, it could be systemic prejudice stuff.
Like, you know, distrust. It could be a masculinity thing, which is socially kind of like reinforced that men are supposed to be like this provider, you know, John Wayne kind of person, which is so outdated. Man. I just, if we can cure that, that could solve a lot of problems, but there's that issue, like the push factors, right?
Like, guys don't want to go and for whatever reason why. It could be something really legitimate, it's all legitimate, but it could be something really out of our control, like a systemically prejudicial system, or it could be something that we can control, like the perception of. care. But it's also like those pool factors, like national system that we're involved with.
Like, I don't know how to change that. I could work on the prejudice stuff. I can work on the masculinity stuff. I can help get guys there. But the pull factor is actual service. I don't know how to change that. That seems like such a crazy knot to untangle. I don't even know where to begin. But I do think that we could start with being a bit more welcoming to males with how we provide care.
But that is not an answer to your question because I don't have one, but it's a very great question that I wish we would definitely tackle.
Dr. Lutz: You know, I once went to a meeting where they asked the individual who's the head of the American college of obstetrics and gynecology, who was at a men's health meeting.
What can we do to get men engaged in health care? And they said, if only men had a cervix. And I thought. "What are you talking about? Are you crazy?" He said, "Well, because women have a cervix because women do childbirth and child rearing in general. They're engaged in healthcare once they have their first period and men, because they go from childhood to adulthood under the care of their mother. Once they leave the care of their mother, they leave healthcare. They are not engaged."
And so this gets me to my next topic, which has been near and dear to you forever and ever is testicular self-examination, testicular cancer screening, because this is the age group where if we were to ever have the ultimate hook to engage men in screening and early detection and body awareness would be to teach young men about the need for testicular self examination, which would get them more engaged with their own bodies and health and understanding. So tell me about how this affected your life as a young adult male and how this engaged you.
Dr. Rovito: Um, when I was 16, I had, uh, I felt a lump on my testicle. Just, you know, you're getting a shower and you're like, oh, what's that? That was weird. And it was big. I don't know if I didn't notice it before, but it was definitely something that didn't feel normal. I don't know what normal was though. And it bothered me for a while.
I started feeling some pain, like a little acute pain, like here and there. I'm like, this is not normal. It's weird. I didn't want to tell my mom or dad about it. Then this is going back to the mid nineties. There was no like this. I mean, what I had access to was, you know, the Dewey decimal system and the only option I had was tell my parents.
And that took a while for me to do. Socially constructed masculinity issues of like telling anybody about anything, let alone my genitals. And, um, I actually did tell them because it was like terrible. I thought I was going to die this whole, like recurring mortality things. I didn't know what was going on.
And I kept feeling this thing, you know, it was painful. So they took me to the urologist and it was like, literally like one of those like wild west, where the guy comes into town once a month. It's like, you got to book on the Thursday he's in town. Cause if not, you have to wait a month to get access.
And so it was like an old fire hall that the office was in and we went in and the guy's like, you have something called a varicocele. I'm like, what the hell is that? It was a varicocele. It wasn't cancer. It was a varicocele and I got treated for it, but then it came back in 2008 and I had to get it again.
The varicocele. And I was like, man, this is like an issue. And I don't know really what's going on with it. So I I just want to keep checking, you know, I keep feeling myself cause I want to make sure it doesn't come back and this and that. And so I just got more and more involved with that, like my own health.
And then I was like, well, if I'm this confused, I'm sure most other guys are confused. Not that I'm special, but I'm like a normal Joe. And so if I'm confused, I'm sure other people are really confused and, wjat helped me was palpating my testicles, just checking myself. And that was a tool to spur me into becoming more well? I don't know if that's the correct conjugation of that.
But I became healthier just mentally and physically because of me feeling my testicles up randomly one day, it spurred me to be on top of this stuff. Yeah, I'm a huge advocate for the testicular self-examination TSE. It's a free, cheap tool that we can do to help guys get involved and get active with their health and, their issues around them. I'm sure we're going to get into that a little bit, but I'm a huge advocate.
Dr. Lutz: Here's the thing is, you know, we were talking a little bit about how do we get guys involved in self-examination? So we started a campaign called, "Got Nuts? Check 'em," and we thought this would be a great partnership with Germac Nuts, put it a little tongue in cheek and make it a little entertaining and humorous at the same time, but create awareness.
What we did is we convinced a friend of ours who owns a series of beer trucks throughout Southeastern Michigan. They put this logo on the back of their trucks, "Got Nuts? Check 'Em.". With a logo of a guy looking into his own pants, a cartoon character. The one thing they realized is that there's a lot of people who actually read the back of beer trucks and the reason they discovered it is because they got more complaints than they've ever had ever since they put any campaign on the back of their trucks.
And the reason is, is because the world we live in is still not ready for that kind of advocacy. So we have to spread the word in such a way that we engage people without either being frightening or controversial or in their face. And so it's a really tricky, narrow line path that we have to follow.
But we have to work together. And one of the things was the US Preventative Services Task Force. And that's part of what is been your mission over the past several years, the US Preventative Services Task Force, when it comesto testicula self-examination, gave it a "D" Rating. "D Don't Do It.". Why would they ever use that kind of a rating for "don't do it?"
They could have picked any other letter of the alphabet, but they had to pick D which is absolutely an abysmal response and will be unhelpful totally for our young men of our country. What kind of mission can we doto make a change?
Dr. Rovito: I feel like a spitting in the wind sometimes, but the only thing is a collective voice.
Just keep knocking at the door. The task force has to ask them just to review the evidence again. It's like one of those things that it's like, everyone's doing it, like air quote, privately. You recommend it to your patients. I recommend it to people that I taught, like all my students, it just seems like everyone's recommending it from public health to urologists, to your urologic oncologists, whatever.
But still, officially, it's not recommended. And so it's this weird dichotomy going on. And so I don't know if it takes a collective voice, just to ask the task force for review. I don't know how to change that because they always claim there's a recommendation and that that's all it is, but it carries a lot of weight.
The task force does it carries a lot more weight than what they say it does. I believe that don't quote me on this, but I believe like most medical malpractice, they'll kind of bring in the task force recommendation. If the person's being sued, they're like, "Did you follow The task force?" And if not, then, tsk, tsk, this is how we're going to get you. Something along those lines.
So it carries a lot of weight. I don't know any way to get around that. We have to convince them somehow to take this up again, to change this. I don't want to belabor the point, but it is a hugely important issue to me to get them to change this rating because it's, pardon my French, it's a bit absurd that if you looked exactly what was going on, if you look exactly what they're basing his recommendation on, it's a house of cards.
They're not even following their own evidence or their own methods. There's no evidence at all to suggest that it's harmful or beneficial. And if that's the case, my argument always is if nothing exists, it has to be an "I." That's what you say it should be, but I don't know what will it take?
It's going to take some kind of collective voice just to keep bugging them and just keep asking them, I don't know what else we can do besides just keep practicing it and bugging them.
Dr. Lutz: You know, we dealt with the same disaster with PSA and prostate cancer screening from the US Preventative Services Task Force in 2012, when they gave it a D rating.
And as a result, a number of men did not get screened. In fact, 25% of prostate cancers did never get diagnosed on an annualized basis as a result of the change in screening recommendations from the US Preventative Services Task Force. So as a rule, if you think about it, that didn't mean that 25% of prostate cancers went away.
They just were being delayed in diagnosis. And so we, as urologists knew exactly what was going to happen and the fruit bore out with more metastatic disease, more higher grade disease, more incurable disease. And so they came back with revised recommendations, but it shouldn't ever have to come to that.
For any disease that we are treating, they should take the educational opportunities from all of us out in the field who care for individuals who are the targets or the victims of these diseases. And try and let us explain what we believe is the best way to help take care of these individuals and the proper way to screen.
And I think that the best way to improve our healthcare system is to go from a sick care system to a well care and preventive health care system, so that there will be less sick care down the road, and people will have a better quality of life all along the way.
Dr. Rovito: And just to go back to that point, the whole well care thing, I think proactivity might be one of those silver bullets that can help change the system.
If we're more proactive with health care, which is trying to push more preventive services, like what you're talking about, push screening, push conversations with the younger people. We should be talking, with the whole service thing too, we should be talking about these things to like ten-year-old boys.
Cause that's when they get, you know, the females get the talk about menstruation and stuff. I was in sixth grade when that happened, they took all the girls out of the room. They went down to learn about menstruation and the boys were left to play like paper football on the desk just until the girls got back and we were like, where are you going?
They were like, we're going to learn about X, Y, Z. And we're like, okay, well, I guess we'll stay here. And that's this kind of like a microcosm, like what's going on and how guys are approached with healthcare. It's like on the fringes. If we engage guys then about doing whatever X, Y, and Z that's proactivity. And I think that could solve a lot of issues where guys are encouraged to go to the doctor, guys are encouraged to talk about their health, not just physical, but also mental.
Maybe you'd see, a decrease in homicide or a decrease in suicides or, decrease in metastatic cancers, maybe. Cause they're going in earlier. I think it's a proactive approach, but we got to start with these younger generations. Talking, you know.
Dr. Lutz: It sounds like public health to me.
Dr. Rovito: That's why I'm here. That's why we work together.
Dr. Lutz: That's exactly why, because everything you talk about is public health. And we learned, about the deficiencies of our public health system. When the COVID pandemic hit, we instantly learned that we don't have an adequate public health system to take care of our nation as a whole. And we're counting on other agencies like CDC or NIH to step in, but it's really public health to really teach people how to actually take care of themselves during a crisis like that for a communicable disease.
Dr. Rovito: It is a hard row to hoe.
Dr. Lutz: It really is. It's a tough thing. So I got a question. You know, I asked you before, what was your personal health challenge? And you said your body image. Why did you say body image? What do you mean by that?
Dr. Rovito: Oh, I still struggle with it. It's been something that's been affecting me for about, what am I 41 now? I was six years old when I became cognizant or when I noticed my body?
Like I was overweight after like five or six years old. I put on a lot of weight. I don't know. I became obese, borderline, not morbidly obese, but I was a pretty big kid. I was pushing 245 at one point. But it affected me from when I was like six and seven. I just aware of my body. Like I was bigger than other kids.
Like I was playing little league baseball, I to get a different size pants tha the other kids. Cause none of them fit me. I developed gynecomastia, which was hugely traumatic. I wish people could raise issues about gynecomastia, which is, you know, pretty much like man boobs. Guys have this, and if you're younger and you're going through puberty and you have this, you don't take your shirt off to go swimming.
You don't get a shower in front of other people. I had a written, this is, I might maybe get a bit too much into it. But I had to like tape, use tape, to kind of like make my chest look flat. And I was like 14 going through this formative years, this like destroying any kind of self-esteem that I would have.
Anyway, I got some corrective surgery when I was a kid, 15 years old, which I'm still thankful to this day to my parents. It changed my life, which was very helpful, but the effects of that from age six and seven up until like, maybe I was like 23. When I first, when I really lost weight. I was 23 when I got under 200 pounds for the first time.
And I don't know, maybe 15 or 10 years. Yeah. I remember the day where I stepped on the scale, it said 199. It was like maybe October, 2003. I remember like the actual date. It was so clear to me, but I struggled with that for so long. It still affects me to this day. Like I still have these weird thoughts, like these flashbacks, I talk to my wife about it.
It was like body dysmorphia at some point. And anyway, that's a big struggle. I mean, it's lessening and lessening and lessening, but it will never go away. Like I'm not going to be foolish and think that it will, but it's always going to be there. And so I'm not afraid to talk about it. I know because a lot of guys deal with it, not just for me on my end with the overweight thing, the whole underweight thing is a huge thing for guys.
Like they think they're small and weak and feeble and they want to bulk up. So they're doing all this gym stuff and they're not really... body image is a huge, huge concern. And a lot of guys, I'm talking like high double digits og guys have this issue. They just don't talk about it. Cause don't even know they have it, but they have it. And it's really affective. It's really affective.
Dr. Lutz: Did this contribute a bit to your suicide moment that you contemplated it?
Dr. Rovito: Oh yeah. you just feel worthless. Like you get to a point where like, for me, like this whole battle, when I started losing weight, I thought it would get me into a positive mindset.
It got me into very negative raging, like,,I was, so pissed about what I went through and what the residual effects of that is. It's like an F5 tornado coming through and is blowing away the neighborhood. And I'm left there the rubble. And I was so irritated and mad about that, that my coping mechanism was rage and cigarettes.
Dr. Lutz: Do you still see yourself as overweight?
Dr. Rovito: Yeah, well, not overweight, but I'm like, man. I could really do something better with what's going on, but then I gotta talk myself. It's kind of daily. And it's something that I learned to live with. It's manageable. It's very much manageable, but I can't lie and say, it's not there.
It's still there. And I know will be there but I use that as a catalyst to educate other men or other males about it, but it's still there a daily, it's like a little nagging cough you have or something like that. It's like a little nagging thorn in your side or like a rock in your shoe. It's there, you just learn to live with it though.
Dr. Lutz: So I would assume that when you preach, you preach lifestyle versus diet.
Dr. Rovito: Yeah.
Dr. Lutz: You preach overall sense of all the things that create a healthy lifestyle. And you look at these diet plans and you probably get revolted.
Dr. Rovito: I roll my eyes. Cause it's like a short term fix. It's ridiculous. They don't solve anything.
They just make you worse off. The only thing that got me better is lifestyle change and the idea of lifelong learning. I know this is a lifelong process for me. You know, I always have to work on my temper and rage issues. I still have to work on my body image issues. I know that that's hard to get out or get rid of, but I've developed mechanisms that can help me cope with that, to suppress that in healthy ways.
And you use that as a catalyst to teach, instead of just a reactionary thing where, you know, you fall into the cycle of despondency, cause you just feed into the whole thing, but I'm not afraid to talk about this stuff either. I think more conversations, again, being proactive. I think the conversations need to be had. I think can really switched that system from a health care into a well care system. It's having conversations like this with the right people.
Dr. Lutz: Yeah. Well, I still remember as a kid, I was so overweight that I'd go into the clothing store and they look at me and they go, no, you're going back to the Husky section.
Dr. Rovito: Yeah. Husky. That was the section. The Husky section. Yeah.
Dr. Lutz: Yeah. Husky. I couldn't buy clothes in anywhere but the Husky section. Husky. And I would tear my pants all the time.
You know, you'd bend over and your pants split in the seam and your butt and your underwear comes showing through, of course you were Whitey tighties in those days. So, there you are in school and everyone's laughing. Cause your white underwear is poking through and you have to call home to get a new pair of pants. And these were horrible memories, but..
Dr. Rovito: Are you still affected by it?
Dr. Lutz: Oh, I've been overweight my entire life.
Dr. Rovito: But you're not there physically. Like I see you and like you're not, but like mentally you think you are right?
Dr. Lutz: Oh yeah.
Dr. Rovito: That's how I see myself.
Dr. Lutz: What I did is a year ago when I finally went to get a physical, another one, and I was still at 200 pounds and I'm running every day biking everyday, but I can't change cause I didn't change my lifestyle.
I did that, what they call that mindless fog, stupid eating, where you, you graze and you consume two thirds of your calories by eating garbage. And so, uh, my blood pressure was out of control and I was pre-diabetic for the first time in my life. And I said, you know, Lutz, you, you gotta, you gotta change your life. This isn't going to work. You got to change. And so I've dropped 25 pounds.
Dr. Rovito: Good for you. That's awesome.
Dr. Lutz: And all my running, biking, my pre-diabetes has gone. My blood pressure is virtually normal now, but I know that it's a constant battle. And my biking buddies laugh at me cause they know I weigh myself every single day.
I don't miss a day on the scale. I watch it like a hawk and I don't let it fluctuate by more than one and a half to two pounds because that's my mission. And I refuse to ever go back again. And so that's my lifestyle, you know it's just gotta be part of my life for survival.
Dr. Rovito: That's very powerful stuff. Congrats to you. So I did the whole thing with the weighing though, too. But for me, I was weighing myself like eight times a day. It was like that. Like it got to the point where I was like, and I remember the day, these days are so. I was with my wife, Kathy, I think was before we got married, but I remember I had a scale and I was there.
I was in the midst of one of these like little things back then. It was pretty bad. I go on these like cycles and I remember I was like, I'm going to stop. I took the scale. It was a glass scale. I just went out to the parking lot, and just smashed it. And I was like, I never again will buy a scale. For others it works, Like, for you it worked. For me, that was something for me that actually was making it worse for me because I was just there eight times a day doing it.
And I was like, oh my God, I got to cut the supply off. And so for me, I had to go smash my scale and I weigh myself maybe four times a year. And again, that would be like a half a day for me back in the whole thick of it. I weigh myself like four times a year. And I go to Publix here just like those public scales, like the supermarket. Jump on and, but that's about it. But that bothers me though sometimes that I don't have one, but I had to do it so I can cut the blood supply off to not feed it anymore.
Dr. Lutz: Yeah. You know, Michael, once you shared with me that one of your favorite expressions was nil desperandum, and I'm just kind of curious why you believe that is such an important expression for you.
Dr. Rovito: Oh God. When I was a kid, my dad's a pretty cool dude. If you think of any kind of like John Mellencamp song, it's like my dad. Like Jack and Diane, my mom, my dad,.Not really, but I think of that. He's from simple stock and he's this cool dude. Like he was full of life, you know, got through high school.
That was pretty much it. Worked at the same auto mechanic store for 40 some years at the same counter. But he was so full of wisdom and, you know, I have a PhD, but I don't give a shit. You know, that guy is smart. I mean, in so many ways, just because of the life skills that he has. And he always told me, and he saw me through the worst of it all. He was always telling me like, you cannot give up, do not feed into that.
Don't despair. You're good. You just have to breathe, bro. You just have to get through this because life sucks and you have to just... It sucks for everybody. And so part of being a strong person is just learning to acknowledge what's going wrong and just finding a way out and just persisting through it.
And I got a tattoo. I'm not going to... it was life affirming for me that my dad who's, you know, my issues are like negligible compared to what he had to go through. Like just living but it was really. It was from my dad that helped me get through a lot of stuff. It's like a thine rod and thin staff kind of a thing, you know.
Dr. Lutz: That's a powerful story.
Dr. Rovito: He's a cool dude. He's a really cool guy.
Dr. Lutz: Yeah. Wish I had a chance to meet him.
Dr. Rovito: Maybe someday I'll take him to Detroit. We can hang out.
Dr. Lutz: That'd be great. You know, my expression actually came from my youth. Mens sana in corpore sano. And that was actually the motto from the school I went to.
And I used to think when I was a teenager and I saw that, I thought that's a crappy expression. You know, what value is that? And as you go through life, you go, ah, I get it. Mens sana in corpore sano. A sound mind, and a sound body. That's the only way you can live life. I mean, if you don't have a sound mind, it doesn't matter what your body's doing and vice versa. You have to have a sound body in order to have a sound mind.
Dr. Rovito: Yeah, I totally agree.
Dr. Lutz: They're so intertwined and I am in total agreement with that. And if there's ever a motto, that is how I live my life now. That's really it.
Dr. Rovito: That's wonderful.
Dr. Lutz: And I laugh back at the time, how I've just thought this was a silly expression, but
it really is important. So I love it. You know, I always like to ask one question and that's like, how do you want to be remembered? What do you want as your legacy? When somebody says, Michael, Rovito, the one thing I'll always remember about him? I mean, you remember your dad and you remember that most intimate thought and you even had a tattooed on you because it was so impactful, but how do you want to be remembered? Not necessarily just your family. To your students, your community, the people around you that you've actually served over the years.
Dr. Rovito: I always get the best response from myself. Like I always enjoy getting emails from students where they'd say, or anybody that I work with, "Hey, what you said to me really resonated and it came true. And I just want to thank you for that, because without that advice, you know, I wouldn't be here."
And so I always liked that. Cause I'm like, "Man, someone's listening." I'd like to be just remembered as being relatable, but insightful. It's very modest, but I love being able to have conversations with anybody and about anything.
I love being a conversationalist. I like to relate to people just to kind of see them as a human and just relate on the human level. If people can say, yeah, man, he was a cool guy. He's relatable and things he said were kind of insightful. That would be cool for me besides being a good father and husband, but..
Dr. Lutz: Well, I really appreciate you being here with me and sharing this conversation, having a moment to talk about our lives, being chubby kids who grew up and can actually, celebrate our health and well being and doing something for the communities around us. I just want to say thanks to Dr. Michael Rovito for this really great conversation. And thank you for joining us. I'm Dr. Michael Lutz, urologist and founder of the MIU men's health foundation.
Through our events, resources, and this podcast we're dedicated to men's health, advocacy and awareness. We're focused on education, research and treatment of prostate cancer, immense health related issues. And for more information about the work that we do and how you can get involved, visit us online at MIU men's health foundation dot org.